So where is that proof then?
September 28th, 2006Is it real, or just another way to fool the public into parting with their money?
I guess I’m not the only person who feels like this from time to time, but right now I find myself wondering if astral travel is real or just some other way for people to make money??
I really do want to believe in this, and the funny thing is - the more I read about OBE accounts, the more I become skeptical. Sure at times, I think ’sure that sounds plausible’ but I still keep coming back to the same old question:
‘If they are real, how come nobody can give any proof?’
In many books I’ve read on the subject, ‘travelers’ explain that they can control their ‘adventures’ - and even meet up with other ‘travelers’ - who testify to it at a later date. Well, if people can do this I wouldn’t have though proving it would be that hard!
So how can proof be sought?
1. Attempt to meet up with someone on the other side and ask some questions…. like where is the Holy Grail hidden? Or where is Mr Bin Laden hidding.
2. Go and visit a remote location and give a detailed account (Visit my house if you like!!)
It just seems a little funny that all the information brought back is nothing which can be verified… and even sometimes contradicts what other so called ‘travelers’ have found.
So what could explain these so called OBEers?
1. The most obvious - Dreams.
2. Just plain lies.
3. A method of story telling, with the objective of obtaining attention.
4. A method of story telling, with the objective of making money (by selling books, CD’s etc)
5. A spectacular human power that not everyone is aware off. But can be learned if believed (with the help of books, CD’s, workshops etc).
Maybe I’m just getting old and skeptical, but as many ‘travelers’ say - you need to keep an open mind. That is exactly what I am doing now. I’m ready and waiting with an open mind to see some proof.
Someone convince me. Please!!
October 20th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
I completely agree.
Well done for saying what you think.
I’ve worked as a magician for a long time and have learnt how easy it is to fool the human mind… and how easy it is when people really WANT to belive in magic (which they do.)
I think evolution is a good argument against OBEs - because if it were possible surely it would give animals an evolutionary adantage and so be a common skill in nature?
Anyway, rant over…
November 26th, 2006 at 8:02 am
I don’t think there’s anything I can type that will ‘convince’ you. I don’t think I ever really understood it when I’d read or heard about others experiencing something outside their bodies, either.
It’s happened to me three times: twice while I had been sleeping and once when I had an accident. The accident was the scariest experience. I fell and got a concussion. I don’t remember hitting the concrete, but I DO remember ‘coming out’ of my body. I knew I was dying, and it felt so awful. It felt like my body had actually dulled my senses, but I did’t know that while I’d been living. When I came out, my senses felt sharp. It was uncomfortable. I wanted back in my body, and it didn’t take too long to get back in it. Another interesting thing is that I had no spatial perception. It seemed as if I was on the sky, and yet I had the sense of being out of my body. It is difficult to try to explain it.
Another thing I find interesting is my dreams! I have had several dreams about the same thing. I like the dreams! But what intrigues me is that sometimes I dream about things I’ve never seen before. How can that happen?
November 29th, 2006 at 10:01 pm
Thanks Laurie for your post.
I know someone who also came out of body during an accident (hit by a car). she claimed to have saw herself and people around her from across the road. Very interesting and hard to explain away!!
I’ve had many strange dreams and some have had things which do not exists in our world (as far as I’m aware of anyway). I find this fascinating. But I also know we all have a creative side which is clearly more present in dreams - this could explain this, but does not make it amy less fascinating.
The mind is a magnificent ‘thing’ with endless wonders.
December 1st, 2006 at 1:14 pm
im still alittle sceptic too. the problem is these experiences have been when you are asleep and involintary. the only way for me to know for sure is project from an awake state. sure you can lie on your back and start feeling your self floating and you might feel vibrations and even a moving feeling but my mind wonders and my body is tense so a projection doesnt accure. the only way to bypass this is dream and let the body and mind relax then it a natural thing but then you would consider it to be just a dream.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:34 am
There actually is a significant amount of research that has been done on out of body experiences. If you are looking for a scientific slant to the topic please check out the monroe institute
http://www.monroeinstitute.com/
Robert Monroe is a well known figure in the world of out of body and his involvement with the psychic spy program has some very convincing results that are scientifically verifiably. The Stanford Research Institute also produced some very interesting scientific result with a disciplined protocol for Remote Viewing (some would argue RV is a form of OBE).
Anyway, if this is the type of information you need for convincing yourself I would encourage you to do some research on Dr. Edwin May, Dr. Hal Putoff, Robert Monroe, Joe McMoneagle. I am a scientist at heart and this material really blew me away. Its ok to be skeptical and question everything you hear about OBE’s. It is unfortunate that there are frauds out there who would take advantage of people who genuinely want to advance themselves mentally and spiritaually. We all live in a reality which we create for ourselves in order to grow spiritually and I wish you the best in your quest.
zo
February 21st, 2007 at 11:08 pm
zo - thanks for the information, I’m sure it’ll help others who read this. I have to agree that Robert Monroe seems to have done a great deal for the study of OBE’s, I have ready all his books and many books from people who have gone through the Monroe Institute courses. The only problem I have is, as far as I’m aware, the Monroe Institute have not released all the decades of reasearch data… only a small selection of second hand accounts are available. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I also have great respect for Hal Puthoff, and find his work fasinating. But in regards to RV and Joe, I have done a fair amount of research on that subject, and found it to be very hit and miss, although the docs released obvioudly only show the hits - as you would expect from people who now run business on it. Sorry for sounding so sceptical, I was once a real beleiver in this, and do hope to be again - but I need evidence first this time.
I do not think I have came across Dr. Edwin May - thanks for this tip - I’ll check that out!
March 20th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
You cannot say that OBE’S are invented, just lies in order to get attention. The proof for this statement is that OBE’S happen all around the world, and all the people of different nations and traditions tell nearly the same story (like the white light, the tunnel). That’s why they cannot just be invented! And what do you do with the people that have OBE, although their brain can impossibly work and although it is impossible to even have a chemical reaction in your mind, because your brain is just not working anymore. Here is an interesting article:
http://www.near-death.com/tart.html
think about it
June 2nd, 2007 at 8:54 am
I had an out of body experience myself. I was in the 8th grade. It was during PE, and we were doing an activity where a group of people stood on opposite sides of the gym and at the same time run across. While running across to the other side of the wall I suppose someone accidentally bumped or pushed me. I dont remember hitting the concrete floor. Next thing, I saw myself sitting down on the floor, “indian style”. While I was looking at myself, I was thinking “whats going on?”. I didnt understand what was going on. I didnt feel anything. I just kind of stood there looking at myseld sitting. Then, I heard someone calling my name, and then I woke up crying with this unmanageable headache. My mouth felt soar. The person who was calling my name was my friend. He was waking me up, because, I guess I has fell into a concussion. When I woke up, my whole body felt like it was beaten. She had to carry to the nurses office, eventually, they had to call the ambulance…
June 16th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
Friends,
All your opinnions are valid and legitimate. The only way to prove that the experience is a true separation from the physical is for one to experience first hand. One can’t determine from a point of reference that the experience is real or not, until they do it themselves.
I’ve been involved with projecting since 1987 and am advanced with obe’s. For me, personally I have had the validations that prove “something” is behind our physical senses.
All I can do is write, document my progress and share. It’s up to the skeptic, non-believer to pursue this level of consciousness. No one will do the work for you.
I’ll post validations for you to review.
Tvos
June 16th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Date: 06-06-2007
Time: 01:15 PM – 01:25 PM
Subject: Forgiveness
Author: David A. Warner
© Copyright 2007
www.invisiblelight.us
OBE Journal (Validation)
The dream setting took place at my mom and dad’s house where a party or social event was taking place. Not understanding why or how this event unfolded, my dad and I started verbally fighting with vulgarity of words thrown at each other. I felt the glory inside of cutting my dad down in front of the guests at this event. My dad walked away and made his way to the basement where I decided to continue the fight. I took a good look at my dad and noticed that he was old in years. As we kept up the verbal fighting I started to question myself “I don’t swear in the physical world and my relationship with my dad excellent”.
The scene faded and I found myself sitting on a bus seat in a daze where I became conscious of my new surroundings. I’m not sure if this was a community or school bus, but based on instinct I feel it was a school bus. I scanned the environment and noticed mostly young boys and a few girls in their teen years. One person I immediately identified was my dad around 15-19 years old. This would have placed me in the time period between 1946 –1950 where my dad was in his teen years.
As I observed my dad, I noticed he was playing with this small brown cloth sack that was stitched at the top and bottom seams. This small brown cloth bag was the size of his palm. My dad would throw the sack up into the air, kick it with his foot to the next person without the sack landing to the floor. This game reminded me of hacky sack, but this was not invented until early 1970’s. Next to my dad was a girl with red hair, yellow flowery dress and carrying books on her lap. The girl didn’t appear to be interested in this game and tried to keep to herself. However, my dad tried to interest this girl in joining this game but she still remained quiet.
I decided to ask and test this girl about the game they were playing. I asked her “Do you know anything about this game, is there internet web site for the manufacturer”? The girl looked at me confused about my question, especially about The Internet Web Site.
My dad rose to his feet from the seat and approached me, and I embraced him crying in his arms. I explained to my dad that I was his son and to forgive me for what I will put you though in the future. As he was comforting me, I looked to the left side of the bus and noticed my friend “Mike L.” and communicating to him I said “I hope you remember this”. The scene faded and I could feel the transition of my empty physical body coming back to life. The best way to describe is the feeling of blood circulating back into the body from being numb.
As I became conscious of the physical world around me I pondered the thought about not narrating this experience. I really didn’t think much of it but to play it safe, I quickly narrated all the details into my pocket pc to mp3 format. I asked myself “What do I have to lose if I contact my dad over the phone and explain what I experienced. Most likely he would tell me all of this was invalid”.
However, the experience wasn’t invalid of what took place as I narrated this to my dad over the phone. I compiled a list of questions before hand to ask my dad and verified this twice throughout the day with him.
Questions
1. Did you play with a sack when you were in the school, friends, or navy?
Reply: Yes, going someplace on a bus, there was no name for this. It was
just something you would throw around for a form of entertainment.
2. What country would you have played this?
Reply: USA
3. Dad did take the bus a lot with his friend, mostly men on the bus?
Reply: Yes, all the time.
4. What time period was it when you were a teenager?
Reply: 1946-1950
5. Do you remember a girl who had red hair, yellow long flowery dress
and carrying books on this bus ride?
Reply: No.
6. Tell me more about this game with this cloth sack.
Reply: Every so often my friends would fill up a sack with beans, tennis ball, or paper tossing it around to pass time.
Interesting Facts
1. Seeing my dad at young and old in a dream and the out of body experience.
2. Validation of the bus, mostly friends (men) on the bus.
3. Validation of the sack game.
4. Response from the girl not understanding “The Internet”.
5. Time Travel
6. I never knew that my dad played this game. Never gave it much thought of
my dad using the bus to travel all over town. Silly as it might sound, I thought his mode of transportation was the automobile.
7. A few days prior, I asked for a sign of validation. I didn’t think it would be
blunt and direct!
June 16th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Date: 08-05-2006
Time: 8:00AM – 8:15AM
Subject: The Dragons Fire
Audio Resource: 08-05-2006 - The Dragons Fire.mp3
Precognitive Validation
Author: David A. Warner
© Copyright 2006
www.invisiblelight.us
Resouces: CNN News
I was able to achieve two out of body experiences, first experience I was able to project myself out of the dream and into the astral becoming consciously aware. The second experience was a false awakening which I didn’t realize that I still was active in the astral plane.
The first OBE was a precognitive experience with traces of validity of NASA Space Shuttle issue’s from launching and Lexington Kentucky Comair Flight 5191 crash on 08-27-2006
Experience I
I was able to transcend into the air taking flight towards the clouds in the direction
South-west. I looked back north east and could see in the distance the space shuttle from
NASA. The space shuttle was lifting upward, pitching, and rolling on its side towards the
heavens. I could see the fire from the engines and smoke leaving a vapor trail behind.
As I traveled higher into the clouds I changed my direction to south-west. I had a difficult time
making it past electric phone wire poles and trees. Every once in awhile there happens to be a
mental block that I confront creating obstacles and barriers.
I was still in my hometown of Garden City, Michigan in the geographic area of Maplewood Middlebelt and Beachwood. I noticed that there was a lot of smoke, people running around, yelling, screaming and devastated. Along with this horrific event, I saw pieces of what looked to be of an engine or propeller of a aircraft, possibly space shuttle still burning with fire and smoke.
As I landed to the ground, I saw a man with clothes on smothering from the smoke. This man was wearing a business suit, roughly 250-280lbs, 5’8” – 6’1”mustache, blonde hair and between 40’s- 50’s years of age. I lost my awareness and shifted into a false awakening.
Experience II
Found myself on the front lawn at my mom/dads house where I was showing my nephew Paul C. Jr. about mind control for levitation of physical objects. As I demonstrated levitation I immediately lost my consciousness again being pulled back into the physical body and awakening.
NASA Space Shuttle Launch
NASA Space shuttle Atlantis finally roared into space Saturday at 11:15 AM 9/9/2007. ET, after NASA postponed the mission four times since its original launch date, August 27. Weather and technical problems caused the previous delays for the 11-day expedition.
The six astronauts had to wait a little longer, when the launch was scrubbed four times over the past two weeks: first because of a lightning bolt that hit the launch pad, then Tropical Storm Ernesto, then a problem with the shuttle’s electrical system, and then a faulty fuel gauge.
Key Findings & Comparisons of Validation
August 25th - Space Shuttle pad was hit by a bolt of lightening.
August 27th - Space Shuttle was scheduled to launch but due to Ernesto hurricane problems it was postponed.
August 27th - Lexington Kentucky Comair Flight 5191 a commercial flight crashed . Tried taking off from a shorter run way that would not accommodate the airplane. The crash took place at 6:07 AM. Only survivor was co-pilot identified as First Officer James M. Polehinke.
Photo of James M. Polehinke
“In the OBE, I saw that there was a lot of smoke, people running around, yelling, screaming and devastated. Along with this horrific event, I saw pieces of what looked to be of an engine or propeller of an aircraft. I saw a man with clothes on smothering from the smoke. This man was wearing a business suit, roughly 250-280lbs, 5’8” – 6’1”mustache, (confirmed photo from CNN of James having mustache and only survivor being a male) blonde hair and between 40’s- 50’s years of age Also, my direction of flight was south-west from Garden City, Michigan to Lexington, Kentucky”. The time of the crash and OBE were in the morning a few hours a part but weeks
from each other.
August 28th - Space Shuttle was post phoned due to hurricane weather of Ernesto and headed back to vehicle assembly building sheltering from the storm.
September 6th - Space Shuttle delayed again due to faulty gage and electrical system.
“In the OBE, I had difficult time getting past the electric phone pole wires. Normally, I don’t have
these issues during flight”.
September 9th – Space Shuttle finally launched into space.
“In the OBE, the space shuttle successful launched”.
Conclusion
On the average, I’m able to validate the OBE on a monthly basis’s due to precognitive experiences, or sometimes a controlled scientific experiment. In this particular experience, I wish
that this did not happen, maybe it will be possible to prevent this type of event from happening in the future.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Date: 7/14/2005
Time: 3:45AM – 3:53AM
Subject: Card Verification Experiment #1 – Conscious Projection
Author: David A. Warner
© Copyright 2005
www.invisiblelight.us
This was the first time that I had setup the experiment with the cards. My wife placed one card on the bedroom door and another card on the door that leads to the mudroom and to the outside the house. Both cards were faced down taped at the top. I figured this would be a great experiment and not to hard to miss since I would be projecting into that path.
The cards were placed on the door about 3-4 weeks ago and it took me that long to finally wield the results.
Anyways, roughly around 3:30AM 7/14/2005 I awakened into the trance state after have gone to bed about a 1/2hr prior. I did feel the vibrations and realize that I was rather in a good stance to project. As always, I just rolled out off the bed and onto the floor. I knew exactly what I wanted to accomplish and that was to view the card on the door. I floated around the bed frame and pushed my way towards the door. I was able to pull the card off the door and view the number and suit. The card that I read was the King of Diamonds. After that, I lost control and was pulled back the way I traveled around the bed-frame.
The weird thing is that when I was on the bed, my astral body was upright and my legs were on the bed. Basically, sitting upright on the bed and during that time I was spinning around in circles. I felt the physical body trying to re-align my astral inside of my physical but just couldn’t. I had to actually had to lay down and focus and could feel the alignment kick in.
I kinda of wonder if this would be a good technique to prevent from coming back into the physical if you want to stay out longer?
Now, the next part is interesting because I thought I had awakened in the physical. I could see my wife Katie and she said to me “Wow, that was fast for you to verify the card”. So we both went over to the door, pulled the card off and this time it was 8 of hearts.
Finally, I physically awakened and realized what had just occurred. So I grabbed my notepad, and removed the physical card off the door and went into the kitchen were there was light. I would be able to write the notes and see the actual card. To my surprise the physical card in the bedroom was 2 of hearts. Even though it wasn’t the 8 at least I got the suit correct.
I decided not to remove the card on the front door leading to the mud room because I would again try to project later.
Date: 7/14/2005
Time: 10:30AM – 10:37AM
Subject: Card Verification Experiment #2 God is the Famous One
Well, at 10:46AM I was able to project and this time no vibes were present. I did hear music from this astral projection subliminal tape I listen to physically and imagined myself rolling inside my physical like a log quickly turning.
Getting out of the body was a breeze and I moved quickly to the front door with the objective of reveling the second card. At the time, I was able to see the card and make out the number, contents BUT the problem that occurred which wasn’t really a problem. I was able to stay out of body for 10-15mins exploring everything around me. I knew at the time if I was to abort the projection and come back that the experience would be cut short. So I decided to put the card in my pocket for when I would lose consciousness I could quickly look at the card upon returning and have a better memory.
Well, never a less I didn’t realize this experience would be very beautiful, moving, and so inspirational that I forgot about the card details. During the experience I ran into two teenagers that I had asked if there were deceased and they both laughed at me. After that, I saw 3 black people, 2 men and 1 woman. I had asked them specifically if they were deceased and the black woman said “yes and that God is her savior and glory to be” I told her that I was sorry to hear that and agreed with her about her statement.
The other elements of the projection is that I was in a backyard which to be believed by me I was located at my mom and dads in the astral. When I was on the back deck, there were many flowers growing. Red, Pink and White in one flower petal. so I decided to pull the flower off and smell it. I could sense the texture, winkle touch and smell the scent of the flower. After that I turned to the sky and said “God, I love you and Thank You for this gift”. Also, I asked help from a higher source like a angel or something from God. When I looked at the sky I could see a shimmer of a ray of light beam thru this pine tree and out from no where was this bird. The bird was a size of a watermelon, almost like a blown up puffer fish. I asked this bird at the time if you/it/he/her was my helper and it nodded back to me gracefully shaking his head up and down.
There’s more to this experience and probably would take another 2-3 pages to detail, but I picked out the beautiful highlights of the experience. Imagine if I had aborted the projection upon verifying the card what I would have lost…!
When I finally returned back to my physical body, I went to the kitchen room and removed the card off of the mud room door. The physical playing card was the Jack of Diamonds.
What is truly interesting about this experiment is that the first projection and the false awakening the both times that cards matched the suit.
Astral Bedroom - card I read was King of Diamonds
Physical Front Room Door - card is Jack of Diamonds
Physical Bedroom - card was 2 of hearts
False Awaking Astral Bedroom - card I read with my wife was 8 of Hearts
What I think happened is that in the first projection and false awakening I had already read both cards. So if I was reading the card in the bedroom, I would have been actually reading it in the front room kitchen door and vice verse. I know that the card in the astral that I tried reading on the second attempt was not suit or the number on the physical cards. I am going by gut instinct and vague memory.
The odds of having the same suit in one astral projection and false awakening attempt is 416 to 1. I still have more experiments with the cards but for a first time shot - pretty dam good!!!
7/14/2005
Later that day I was on my break jogging. I’ve been jogging at work for 15Min’s a day for the last couple of months. Along my travels there was a playing card face down on the cement. I did not pick the card up because I wanted to finish my jog.
7/15/2005
Anyways, I came up to the card again on my daily jog this evening and still faced down.
Out of curiosity I picked the card up.. To my surprise it was the Jack of Diamonds.
Notes: Statistical Data
Statistical Data
Brian (Brother) Calculation:
You have a deck of 52 cards.
You place the cards in various locations. Two for your experiment.
You have four suites of cards.
52(cards) * 2(two cards verified) * 4(4 suits) = actually equals 416 to 1.
Since, these are astral events - Each point is unique upon traveling to a different location) and not just a series. Thus, in order to get one card right it is unique -
Mendels Calculation:
You guessed the correct suit of the first card and that it was a face
card. The number of cards that satisfy this constraint is 3.
On the second guess - which we’ll assume corresponded to the 2nd
card, you got the right suit and saw a number card. The number of
cards that would fit that description is 10.
So it’s 3 out of 52 (first) and 10 out of 52 (second)
3/52*10/52 = 30/( 2704 ) = 1/90.133 : 90 to 1 odds.
Still very impressive.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Here’s a statistical list of validations, precognitive, coincendences that I’ve kept for the last three years.
Experiment Date Validation Status
1 07/14/05 416 to 1 - Validation
2 08/11/05 No Validation
3 08/11/05 Validation
4 08/30/05 No Validation
5 09/18/05 Validation
6 09/27/05 Validation
7 10/13/05 No Validation
8 12/04/05 No Validation
9 12/30/05 1/2 Validation
10 01/04/06 Validation
11 01/20/06 Validation
12 02/28/06 Validation
13 03/02/06 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
14 04/27/06 Validation
15 04/30/06 Validation
16 05/21/06 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
17 05/24/06 Validation
18 05/27/06 Validation
19 07/04/06 Validation
20 08/05/06 Validation
21 10/26/06 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
22 11/05/06 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
23 11/06/06 Validation
24 11/08/06 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
25 11/24/06 Validation
26 12/26/06 Validation
27 03/17/07 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
28 04/15/07 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
29 05/01/07 Validation
30 05/09/07 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
31 05/12/07 Validation
32 05/16/07 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
33 06/05/07 Syncrhoniticity,Coincidence
34 06/06/07 Validation
35 06/13/07 Validation
January 28th, 2008 at 6:20 am
where can i get an (cd) for Out-of-body experience